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I am Margarita Ochoa and I am interviewing Mr. Armando Durón for the Inclusive History and Images Project, a project that seeks to recover the histories of the diverse members of the LMU family.

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We are on the LMU campus in the Creative Spaces studios, and today is Monday, November 7, 2022. Um, my question for you right now is, do you give me permission to interview you for the Inclusive History

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and Images Project, and do you allow the recording to be used in accordance with the stated goals of the project? Yes, thank you.

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Or should I say, sí, sí, you, you're welcome to say, sí or yes and speak in any language you'd like. Um, so I'm gonna begin with some biographical questions and then just some, um, general questions about IHIP, and then

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we'll get into your experience at LMU. Um, so in terms of biographical questions, um, can you, uh, tell us your full name, um, and if possible, your full name now and if it was different when

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you were in LMU. My full name is Armando Durón, Armando Durón Cabral. And it's the same name I've always had. At least that's what I call myself.

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Other people may call me various names over the time, but it's a different story. I know how that goes. Um, when and where were you born?

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I was born in El Paso, Texas, uh, in 1954. And so did you come to L.A. as part of becoming a student at Elm or were you here before? No, I actually, uh, I was born in El Paso,

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but, uh, we actually live in Ciudad Juarez, and when, uh, when I was 8 years old we left my father and, uh, my mom and, uh, my three siblings and myself, um, got on a Greyhound bus and came

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to Los Angeles. At eight years old, that must have been an experience to see a different change from Ciudad Juarez to El Paso to Los Angeles.

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It was, it, it, it was, uh, a, um, life changing experience we left a very, uh, brutal domestic violence situation that is why we left my father. But my mother was actually born in Los Angeles and

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she had been part of the Mexican repatriation as a three year old that's how she wound up back on the other side. But when each of us was going to be born

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she went across to El Paso and so we were all born U.S. citizens, but I actually went to school up to the third grade. In Juarez in Juarez, oh wow, so you got a

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good, well, you got some schooling there, maybe a good mm, I don't know base in Spanish as well. Well, uh, yeah, I went to up to 3rd grade and my experience coming to Los Angeles was, was the

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opposite of everybody else's experience. I was a Mexican American who knew his culture. I was an immigrant who wasn't afraid of being deported.

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That that is very different from L.A. I'm. You know, I, this interview is not about me, but you're speaking to, you're speaking to experiences that I've even

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had because I'm also not from Los Angeles. I'm not a native Angelino that is, but you know, on that note, um, you know I have a question here about identification.

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So how do you identify yourself? And then I wanna ask a follow up related to something you just said. I, I've, um, since I was 15 years old, I've

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identified myself as a Chicano, very much part of the Chicano movement, part of the Chicano generation essentially. Uh, and, um, that's never changed for me. And so, so since this is since you were 15

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years old and my other question right that was inspired by listening to you, um, talk about this, this connection right between Ciudad Juarez, El Paso and then coming to Los Angeles.

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Um, I was gonna ask you if you, if you, um, remembered how you thought about yourself at LMU, but I, I suppose then you imagined yourself as Chicano then too.

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Yes, yes, yeah, I, I came, I came to Loyola already seeing myself as a Chicano. OK. And so did that, did that identity develop you said at 15, did it develop as a result of your

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experience here in L.A. or or you know, was there a transition? No, it, it, it developed, um. In the Chicano movement was evolving, you know, growing at

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that time, uh, this would be 1969, 1970, uh, when I was going to high school, uh, and, um, uh, that's when I developed my self identity I knew. That there was something about the way we were treated.

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And the movement gave me definitions and identifying as a Chicano makes perfect sense for me. Um, I experienced discrimination in junior high in East Los Angeles, uh, and then in high school when we moved

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to Duarte, uh, and so I came in with all of, came to Loyola with all of that background already. Um, in a way also very different than many Chicanos, you know, my peers who came in, most of them

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came from Latino/Mexican A- then Mexican American, not really Latino at that time Mexican American experience in the East Los Angeles area or at other areas, but, but basically grew up in Mexican American communities so this was their

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first experience in uh. You know, kind of like in a um. Anglo dominated society. Uh, and, but I already had that experience.

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In high school. right, right, how that's pretty, that's pretty fascinating to to become so aware of your identity, especially, I mean, I know high school doesn't seem perhaps today as such as a young age, but, but that these

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are, you're right, these are fascinating moments, especially 1969, 1970, uh, where you know where there's Chicano movements, the moratorium is, uh, about to happen. Well, I was, I was in junior high at Griffith

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Junior High in East Los Angeles when the blowouts happened, when the walkouts happened, um, so again, um. I experienced certain things at that time that made me understand what it was all about what the movement was

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all about what the fight was all about, uh, because I was facing my own discrimination in trying to, um, you know, get ahead in in junior high. And so that all, you know, jelled for me very

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early. Thank you. Um, We'll come back to that, but I just wanna, uh, finish these biographical questions because this is, this is

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rich information here, um, so you were born in El Paso, um, you spent time between El Paso and Ciudad Juarez, later came to Los Angeles, um, and so where, where do you consider your hometown?

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What place do you consider your home truly L.A.? You know, I mean, I, I really didn't spend any time in El Paso. I, I was born in El Paso for three days,

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you know, and then, and then, and then to Juarez, uh, and then, and then, you know, we rarely traveled to El Paso. Um, my whole life experience was really in Juarez, uh,

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and then until we came to Los Angeles, but since I've been here, you know, 55 years. Or more, no 67, sorry, 59 years, 59 years, um, you know this is really my, my, my hometown.

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This is your hometown and so this is where you also currently live then, um, let's see, uh, what is your current occupation? I'm a superior court commissioner.

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In Los Angeles. Thank you. Um, so those are our background, um, questions. Let me just, let me turn to our questions about

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your LMU experience. What years did you attend LMU? Uh, 1972 to 1976. And what majors and minors did you have?

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Uh, political science was my major. And you know, speaking of your major, how did you decide on political science as the focus of your studies? Well, I had a choice to come to LMU, uh,

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or to SC. And USC accepted me as an architecture student. That's what I really, that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be an architect.

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But I chose to come to LMU for political science because it was my view that our community needed Lawyers more than they needed architects, so the choice was very much in line with my political thinking that I

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need I wanted to be someone that would be able to help the community and uh I you know, being a lawyer was the way I thought I could most help

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and so I came to LMU with the political science that was at that time. If you're gonna be a lawyer, everybody said get into political science, and I mean it's, it's still the case,

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um, as is history that's just my plug as a history professor here, um, um, you know, I mean, you know what would life be had you become an architect, um, well, you know, I didn't know, I, I, you

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know, it's one of those things where you don't because you don't know, right, because you don't know one and you, I mean I knew no one who was a lawyer, OK?

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I knew no one who was an architect. I could have if I would have uh uh met somebody who was a mentor. Who said you could be an architect and build for

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your community, you know, you could, you could build, you know, housing, you know, for regular folk. I thought being an architect meant I was going to be designing homes for rich people.

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And That wasn't where my head was at that wasn't where my heart was at, so that's why I couldn't find a road for being an architect and being committed to my community.

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At the same time. Wow, I mean that that makes, I mean that that makes a lot of sense and. You know mentors are important um you know in in listening to what you have to say I, I think

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you're right I mean uh you know I, I mentor undergraduate students and oftentimes, right, um, you know, through conversations we, you know, they end up deciding on majors, on minors and what they wanna do, but oftentimes discovering that

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they can. They can study something that truly interests them and for which they have a passion but also still affect positive change in their communities right still still give back in

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ways that they wanna give back but I wanna, I wanna ask you more about mentorship, um, because, because you brought up. The possibility of having had a mentor or a model

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right in in architecture but you went to Poly Sci so when you were here and majoring in political science, were were there a persons who mentored you? Were there persons who who influenced you, who guided you,

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uh, that you can recall in your time at LMU? No. Yeah, that, that, you know, there, there, there wasn't anyone, uh, you know.

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At that time, we literally had. One person that taught Chicano Studies. We had, you know, on a, you know, was here that faculty that sort of came in and out, you

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know, people who just came and taught a class, uh, very few Latinos anywhere on campus, you know, in terms of professors or people in administration or in counseling, whatever it is, you, you know, there was nobody.

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Um, You know, the only, the only place where there seemed to be a proliferation of Latinos was, you know, the, the gardeners, the cooks, you know, in, in the cafeteria, uh, you know, the cleaning people, that's, that was

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it other than that you didn't see Latinos, uh, in, in positions where you know you might get advice about what to do. Wow, that's, that's powerful, um.

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You know what you're, what you're describing is a situation that I've recently heard a colleague here on campus describe, uh, and my colleague actually in political science, um, which is now political science and international relations, Fernando Guerra, um,

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he recently, um, led an event on campus that he, as he called it, um, my Hispanic heritage of, um, month event, he said, where he, he shared with the stats on, um, Latino representation on campus that sound

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and bringing very familiar to what you were just saying, he said we are overrepresented um when it comes to maintenance workers on campus, you know, they, they are crucial, uh, you know, crucial labor force on campus, um, and

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right now when we have shortages we're filling them across campus, um, but we are overrepresented in that area and significantly underrepresented when it comes to faculty, um, we're not the only group Latinos, um, also, um, black and African

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American faculty and Asian faculty. Um, so nothing's changed? so nothing has changed. Um, indeed, indeed, um, you know, if I could that's unfortunate, you know, uh, because if LMU would have taken

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our advice. You know, in those years, um, both when I was, you know, you know, I was president of MEChA here, uh, and, uh, I was on university council, um, you

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know, my last year here and our advice To President Merrifield and the and Father Clark, who was the vice president, uh, at that time and the other people was they needed to bring us in.

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We were a natural constituency. You know, as, as, as Mexican Americans, as Catholics, we were a natural constituency that in years to come would bring a lot, give a lot back to this university,

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you know, um, and everybody nodded. Yep, good idea. But in the end I think ultimately I think it's

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been proven that not much happened and that's too bad because now we're even a larger percentage of the population here in the area uh Loyola could be way ahead of everybody else instead of trying to catch up, uh,

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and, um, and for no reason at all in my opinion because, you know, uh, even if you're not doing it for social You know, purposes, you know, for, uh, uh, if you're

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doing just for. The cash, uh, uh, you know, we're a natural constituency for this university. Uh, and the fact that it's not seen, not understood,

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or, or valued, that's right, or valued, um, you know, uh, because people wanna hang on to the way it's always been, um, it's too bad. It is, um, you know, in terms of student representation,

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um, Hispanic identifying students who are full-time undergraduate students at LMU are now roughly about close to 25% of the undergraduate population, a significant right constituency, um, and yet, um, again, right, um, the current state of affairs is as

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you're describing, um, it's, it's a, it's, it's under we are underrepresented right in terms of faculty. But also something that I, uh, a piece of information that I walked away with from that same event right

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organized by Fernando Guerra was that, um, of the top 20 leading positions or positions of authority at the university level, um, none are currently held by a person who is

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Hispanic identifying. He also added, however, though that in the history of LMU, none of those positions have ever been held by a person who identifies as Hispanic or Latino.

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What are your thoughts on that? Well, I, I like in many other areas, that is a statistical impossibility. You have to plan for that

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Because statistics would tell you otherwise. I mean, It can't be an accident. Statistically speaking. That cannot be an accident.

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That's what it tells me. I'm gonna call for you. I think others might describe it as systemic exclusion, um, but I like your phrasing.

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Well, I, I frame it that way because people understand that better than systemic exclusion. They, you know, when you, when you just the ordinary person you say was that's statistically impossible unless somebody plans

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for that. Here it is 45 years later. Since I graduated and you're telling me that in the top 20 positions of this university.

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In that whole length of time. There's been no Latinos. In in any of those positions, top 20 in 45 years.

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And if you say, as I do like start out by saying like in other areas, statistically impossible. OK. Uh I know the other the other phrase is understood

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in, you know, academics and so forth, but when you tell a general audience. That's statistically impossible They get that.

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Yeah, you're right. And then they draw their own conclusions. Yes, and we've been drawing those conclusions as as you know you can speak to for for several decades now,

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um, you know, on the same line of questioning, um, you know, and I'm, I'm a little off the path here, um, you, you said that you've been working on these issues since you were a student here, since you

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were president of MEChA since you served on the university, um, council here, um, you know. What kind of events did you, did you organize? Did you take part?

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I should back up. Did you take part in organizing events on campus to shed light to what you thought were issues of perhaps either misrepresentation or underrepresentation or perhaps, um, maybe negative treatment

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and I'm being very diplomatic and phrasing this question here, maybe negative treatment or negative experiences you had on campus. Well, I spent practically the entire four years being involved in issues having to do with Latinos.

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Uh, I mean. From boycotting a reception Uh, because they were serving Gallo wine, went out with my very first year here, I think I, I was

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in school for like three months, and there's a picture of me in the Loyola with Boycott Gallo, OK, uh, since, uh, you know, um, then I, I became a member of the, um, what was then called the governing

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council was called, um. Board of Governors, uh, and there were ten of us, and the year I came in we organized a slate so we had five out of the ten board members

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were Chicanos and we, uh, Raul Mijares was, uh, the president of the student government. Uh, and Mary, my wife was another member and myself and two other Latinos, two other Mexican Americans were the

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other five out of the ten. Um, so we were able to make some changes here, uh, uh, at that time. So everything is relative, um, the vast majority of the

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or big chunk of the money that was going from student, uh, uh, government was going to, um, uh, support the football program here which was a losing program because the university didn't have the wherewithal to actually compete with

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an SC or UCLA that kind so they always lost so we actually voted football out. At that time, yes, and opened up the money to spread the money out to all the other student organizations,

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um. The next year I became president of MEChA and um among other things we closed we we uh took over the um admissions office one day uh to

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you know protest the lack of Latinos uh in in in school here, uh. On another occasion we brought Cesar Chavez here, um, and you know, for Cinco de Mayo Cinco de Mayo, yeah,

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that was the very first time I ever raised any money. I wanted Cesar Chavez to come for Cinco de Mayo and so I called uh La Paz and they said,

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well, he'll come. And then they called me back and said, oh, but you need you need to pay him $1500. He's raising money for um.

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I think it was a No on 14 campaign, and one of the propositions way back when and You need to raise $1500. And so I said, OK, so, uh, but I want

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him, I want him here at 12. You know, if I raise the 1500, well, if you're first because he's gonna go to SC, he's gonna go to UCLA.

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He's gonna go to Pepperdine was still downtown. Uh, Pepperdine, I forgot 5 schools in what he was just gonna make this whirlwind tour on Cinco de Mayo, but it was raising money for this campaign, and everybody

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had to pony up $1500. I said, OK, if I raise the $1500 first, Will he come at noon? They said, yes, OK.

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So, um, I called up, I went to see Don Merrifield, the president said, I need $500 because I wanna bring Cesar Chavez, you know. I went to um Mary, who was the next year

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Mary was the head of student government. She was head of the board of governors and then I got $500 from student government and then MEChA kicked in $500.

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So I got my $15 in three days I had $1500. I've never raised money. I didn't, you know, you know, but I, I had

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the $1500. I called him back and I said, OK, I got the $1500 you know, can he come? And he did.

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He did. He actually did come at at at noon, yeah, for, you know, we were in the middle of the day of his day, and it was a very special moment

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for I think all of us to have him here, um, he, he. Was a very special individual in many many ways um I got to meet him, you know, um, I had

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written an article when I was in high school called Chicano. In which the first time that I explained to my fellow students in the school paper what a Chicano was

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and uh in there I mentioned Cesar Chavez. And one of the ladies who was kind of like, you know, Mexican American, uh, you know, leader came to me and she was very upset with me.

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She says, how could you praise that Cesar Chavez, you know, he's giving us a bad name. Um, this is the thinking of of my parents' generation, OK, uh, and in fact I shouldn't have been calling

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myself Chicano either. That was my, my own mother's, I identify with that as well, my mother, thing about that, right? And so, um, so to meet him, you know, five

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years later and all that was was very special for me. Wow, that's I, I love that story. um, Cesar Chavez is one of my childhood heroes.

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um, I'm from the Central Valley of California and my parents were farm workers and this is a man that really transformed the lives of many people. I saw it, right?

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Um, I know that there he's, you know, his, his history, if you will, has become a polemic. Um, for a variety of reasons, but, uh, but I, I to hold them in high regard.

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I think, I think that his movement was special, and one of the reasons why I went to university is because this person had an influence and direct influence on my family.

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No, no, absolutely the the farm workers were, were very instrumental, very influential for us in the cities. Because from our perspective, if farm workers can organize if they can fight we should be able to do it

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too, and so that was so important, you know, and, and what, what he and then Dolores Huerta and, and, and the others, you know, accomplished was very important, very important for the rest of us.

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I mean it really galvanized the urban Chicano. That's fascinating. I, I really, you know, as somebody who went into Latin American history and didn't study Chicano studies or Chicano

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history for reasons that you just mentioned because in my family, even though you know we were farm workers and they were part of this labor movement and my mother was really active.

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Um, we were not Chicanos, we were Mexicanos, and the Chicanos sometimes, as they said, were the scabs that broke the picket lines in the fields, right? So we could not be that, um, so I, I

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have this love/hate relationship to the title and I moved away from Chicano studies, but, um, but I, I love hearing this urban component to this history of, of, of Cesar Chavez, um.