Dr. John P. Crocker, Jr oral history - December 20, 2022

Hello, I am Neel Agrawal and I'm interviewing John Crocker for the Inclusive History and Images Project, a project which seeks to recover the histories of the diverse members of the LMU family.

We are on the LMU campus in the Creative Spaces Studios and today is December 20, 2022. John, do you give me permission to interview you for the Inclusive History and Images Project?

And do you allow the recording to be used in accordance with the stated goals of the project? I do. Great.

Thanks for being here today. Let's get started. Um, could you please introduce yourself um, by telling us your name? Um, what do you go by now and um, what was your

name when you were at LMU? Alright. Well, my official name now is Dr. John P. Crocker Jr.

I um, possess a Bachelors of Arts degree in Operatic Voice from LMU, also a Master of Choral Music Education from Utah State University and a Doctorate of Sacred Music from a seminary out in Apple Valley, California.

Um, so I go by Mr. Crocker. Dr. John. Um, Hey, man. Um, Brother man.

But usually it's just Mr. Crocker. And then um, my— I was known as JC when I was here, um, not Jesus Christ, but uh—but John Crocker.

And it was kind of easy to get to you. And then, you know, my call letters on KXLU were um, you know, "The Jazz is always unique here at KXLU 88-nine. This is JC taking for another hour of uh, jazz throughout

the uh—the evening. Call us in, you know, call in if you want to hear anything." So.

So, yeah, that's—that's me. That's great. Thank you. Um, when and where were you born?

I was born on October 25, 1970. Uh, Morningside Hospital. Uh, truth be told, Morningside used to be off of Manchester. And uh—good Lord,

what is it, Denker? Make sure I got it right. Um, I'm off on the street, but it's just a block, I would say east of Manchester and Western, so I'm

off on the street name. It's now uh— it's right around the corner from uh, Ralph's market. It's now a senior uh—senior citizens housing complex.

Uh, I used to meet my—my wife now, my girlfriend at the time. We would sneak away there because it was around the corner from our house.

Uh, but yeah, just up the road from here. Not too far, really. That's great. Yeah.

Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit more about your hometown, you know, where you grew up? Okay.

So um, although I was born at Morningside Hospital, I was born and raised in Compton, California. So um, I was a son— one of six kids of a guy named Captain John

Crocker. He was a special officer for the State of California. Uh, when he wasn't doing guard and patrol work, he would assist LAPD or any municipality uh, with uh, their series of calls.

Um, and he was one of probably—maybe 15 guys that got that um— that got that call in their life and that—that elevation to be a special officer in the late 60s,

early 70s. And he held that until his death back in uh, 2013. So, yeah, that's uh—so Compton, California. Um, although my pop was a cop, I couldn't go to

any public schools, so uh. [Laughs.] So I spent most of my time in private schools. So St. Albert the Great, uh, which now is a K through—I think—eight situation or K through 12 almost

now in Compton. Um, went to Junipero Serra High School in Gardena. I graduated in 1988. Um, 3.86 GPA, uh, number four in my class and uh, you know,

got admitted to about 36 different schools. And uh—Compton Unity School was another little private school we went to off of Santa Fe and uh, Muir, but everything was private because people knew that Captain Crocker was a

cop and they were looking for his kids. So [laughs]. Interesting. Thanks for that. And could you tell us a little bit more about um,

where you've—where you currently live or where you've lived over the past several years? Alright. So um, for the last 22 years, I've been um, a resident

of the Antelope Valley. So we've lived in Lancaster, California. Um, we came back to California— I left—

I left Los Angeles for Utah back in '92. I became a hall director at Utah State University. And at the same time, I was working on my master's degree and getting into uh, theater and uh—should we say

professional theater and musical theater. I did that during summers, but uh, mainly I was a hall director and uh, we ended up coming back in '96, stayed in the uh, South Bay of LA for a while

and '98 rolled around, um, befriended one of the loan officers at the Compton Teacher's Credit Union because I taught at Dominguez High for a while—for two years, and she turned me on to a realtor and um, she showed us

about 30 homes and we closed escrow the day George W. [Bush] was inaugurated president back in '01. And we've been there since—since then. So the Antelope Valley and uh, that—that's—that's been home. So.

That's great. And um, what's your current occupation. So I'm a vocal music teacher at uh, Highland High School in Palmdale.

I've been with the Antelope Valley Union High School District for the last 22 years. The first seven were at Antelope Valley High—a very unique racial breakdown there.

They had a third of almost every ethnic group known to mankind. We had a 2700 students. We're also fortunate to debut a choir.

They're one of the first in the Antelope Valley to go to Carnegie Hall under uh my—my leadership. And um, from there we been at um, Knight High School, which is uh, in East Palmdale. Uh, was kind of a involuntary transfer

because numbers were dropping at AV because they opened a new high school. Stayed there for years and for the last 13 have been at Highland. And uh, I've had nationally ranked programs.

And, a matter of fact, I've got a choir going to make their world debut at Highland on May 29th. We'll be singing with John Rutter there, and uh, I have the open podium now to go back and be a

regular conductor there as well now, too. So. What grades do you teach? Oh, I teach the knuckleheads, brother [laughs]. Grades nine through 12. But it's a calling.

And—and I mean that whole heartedly cause my greater goal, prior to getting in any of this, was to take that master's degree and put it in my back pocket and go on to New York.

And I had befriended an LMU grad named Timothy Blevins, who's since left uh, the New York area, he's back here in LA. But um, I bumped into a professor at Utah State and

he asked me, Had you ever thought about teaching high school? And of course I told him, in no uncertain terms, Are you crazy?

And he said, You have a gift, man, and you need to realize that. And uh—but time will tell. And Dr. Derek at—time is told.

So, here we are. Thanks for that. Yeah, thanks for that really great background information about yourself.

Um, how would you identify yourself? African American male. Uh, ordained minister— I was ordained as a Baptist preacher when I was 28, uh some—almost 20 some odd years ago.

Uh, I'm not 58 now, but I'm 52. So—heterosexual male, I believe in the the union of man—man and woman because man was for the woman made. Um, and a father—a father of five—uh, had

all Crocker's survived birth, would be a father of ten. Uh, but two boys, three girls—two are out of the house. And uh, last boy is—what 12, just started junior high,

15 year old girl at home. She's a sophomore in high school. And our last girl—which is the oldest of the last three—Faith, she's a meritorious valedictorian, the Eastside

High School, and looking to possibly come here to do uh, art therapy, but she has been admitted—fully admitted to Biola University. With about an $84,000 scholarship in tow.

So um, yeah. Did you pass music along to any of your children? Yeah, actually, I did.

Our oldest son, John the Third, uh, actually is a music composer. He majored in Music Composition at Corban University up in Salem, Oregon.

But similar to his dad, he's an actor, um, so he's with Seattle Talent now. Um, he sings. Uh, my oldest daughter, Tamyra, she's um, finishing culinary school. She just passed her last exam in Vegas.

She's also—she's an alto. She sang in my high school choir. Uh, Faith is a cello player. Um, sometimes you say a fake cello player.

Uh, Mariah is a violinist, as well as Isaiah, but they all sing. Uh, and the last three, they'll make their debut with Highland High on May 29 in Carnegie Hall, so they'll be singing. So.

Congrats. Thank you. That's great. So I'm wondering, how did you learn about the IHIP

project? You know, I was an ambassador, I guess, for the last two-three years with uh, alumni relations for uh—for African American students and African American alumni.

And I got an email stating that this project was uh, you know, was—was materializing. And uh, I came to that class reunion here in the

fall and uh, I made it known, because another alumni that works with me up uh, in the Antelope Valley—um, I'm so bad with names after driving.

But she's a colleague of mine with the Black Student Unions there in the AV Union High School District. She pulled me over. "Dr. Crocker,

you got to do the interview now." And the dean of Communication and Fine Arts had been chatting with me too, off and on because we did some things with the Black Student Unions there in the

AV Union High School District, and uh, he was invited to that. And then Charles Mason uh, here in Admissions, we've been, I guess, friends and colleagues since my time here.

So uh—so it was an opportunity to just to give back something, you know—not to incriminate anybody, but just to tell a story from from this guy's perspective. Um, this was the first school I was admitted to out

of about 38 schools. And um, I could have gone to Berkeley, I could have gone to Stanford. Um, UCLA is the only place that didn't admit me—which

was kind of weird—but um—but there's no other experience, like an LMU experience, and I mean that whole heartedly. Not because we're on camera or anything, but I tell students and people at everywhere, I wouldn't exchange this—I

wouldn't trade this experience for anything, because it made me who I am now. Thank you. Yeah, I definitely um, want to now get into a little

bit more about your time here at LMU. Um, what years were you here? 1988— fall of '88 through the Spring—

might as well say August—of '92. And I'll share that story, how it became August toward the end here. But—but yeah,

'88 to '92 and uh, yeah. [Laughs.] Interesting four years, man. Yeah.

Yeah. And um, what was your major? Mine was—coming in here was communication and fine arts, and I'd minored in music the whole time.

So I got to my senior year and um, you know, I struggled academically um, until I got to really senior year, but I knew music was something I really wanted to do.

And the Mark and Virginia say a particularly Doctor Salem, Virginia said, If you want to be in the opera workshop, you need to join the class. And I—honestly, I had been on academic probation and

I sat down with my my counselor and he said, "Hey, you know, um, looks like you're going to actually graduate if you just declare music as your major. Heck, you've been taking all these classes.

Why not?" So it turned out I needed 30 units to finish. And in my music classes I was not on academic probation.

Oh—so bless the Lord. So. Which—which classes did you really um, take to, when you were here? Which music classes?

Wow. The Opera Scenes Workshop, Chorus, um, Vocal Pedagogy—

as dry as it was. Um, Choral Conducting for certain, and Private Voice. Um, I took—I—a lady named Cathy McGrath, she was—

I don't know if she's still around, she used to play for services here in the Sacred Heart [Chapel]. She was a piano teacher here at the time and uh,

she heard me singing because I could never get my left hand together. She said, "Are you a singer?" I said, "Yeah."

So she introduced me to the um, department chair and uh, I guess the rest is history. And um—and I'm glad she did. I'm glad I couldn't play it left handed.

So, yeah. LMU's mission is committed to the encouragement of learning, the education of the whole person, and to the service of faith and the promotion of justice.

How important were these principles to you before coming to LMU and um, did you sense the importance of these principles during your time at LMU? I guess they were in the infant stages of becoming

important um, before ever getting here because I went to an all male high school, and uh, being an ASB [Associated Student Body] president, an athlete, certain things, you know, came naturally. But getting here and getting to the mix of things,

saying, you know, how this group may not get this, but another group does, or just seeing what the social outlay politically was not only on this campus but uh, in LA in general.

I met some very key figures here. Um, Fernando Guerra was my political science teacher and he encouraged me—and I bumped into him when I brought my daughter here for a campus visit.

We were just down next door to El Terasco, there's a new restaurant there. And he said, "Man, I never thought I'd see you again."

But he encouraged me to always apply to top schools. Um, so with that in mind, it sparked a lot, even with my time with KXLU. And I know we'll talk about that a little later.

And um, the Office of Black Student Services and Minority Student Services in general. So um. And Barbara Avery, I will just mention her now because uh,

she was married to James Avery—Uncle Phil from uh—from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. And uh, that's a relationship I still cherish to this day because I got the chance to sit down with him

when I came back as a um—as a religious consultant to Campus Ministry. And um, you know, I guess later we can chat about it.

But to sit and chat with someone of that status, and then I was in a potential Broadway production at that time, that he was financially backing, and he asked my honest opinion of it and he wouldn't let me

out of the kitchen up in Big Bear until I told him what I thought. So.

But yeah. Thank you for that. Can you tell us a little bit more about what LMU was like when you were here in terms of

academics, um, social life? Um, I know you spoke a little bit about your relationship with the faculty, um, but also your sense of representation in terms of racial diversity, um, gender diversity, etcetera.

So 1988 was an interesting time to get out of high school and to come into this environment. I remember enrolling— I actually just had buried my—was coming from a

funeral for freshman orientation. I was allowed to move in a few days early. Um, one of my last aunts had passed away and she lives up in Oxnard and Ventura area.

So I got here toward the evening there of that. But um, this was a unique place because although we may have been 3% of the population, there was a very strong uh—strong sense of of community with with the Black

student population here. Um, Malone, that that Student Services building with Minority Student Services, a lot of people it's—would shy away, but um, I found a place of refuge.

Um, and that's not to knock any other ethnic group on this campus. Um, people came together. We had [inaudible] sanctions, which were basically community nights to

get together once—once a semester. So I learned, "Hey, don't sing an opera song at these, sing a love song," you know? Um. And also just a time of fellowship.

I know that's a big thing in the church, but to be able to just chat with somebody—maybe find out, Hey, man, you know, when you get to your upper division stuff, take this set of classes or, you

know, Take this teacher or avoid that one. So networking more than anything, but a sense of family and uh—again, I guess a sense of also growing up and finding out people had the same fears and concerns

that you had going into that. And some people didn't want to admit that. But yeah, you know, and then we had what—Bo Kimble and Hank Gathers were here, and—although Hank and

I weren't the best of friends, but I spent probably the last elevator ride of his life with me because his girlfriend stayed next door to the room I was in.

And uh—oh, boy. Next door to Hannon was McKay. He was dating a Filipino girl— very beautiful girl.

And uh, she wasn't at the game where he died. And I kind of bought the news back and she said she—she had heard, but um. But to know—

he respected me for—he's like, Crocker, man, you're a musician brother, I respect— I heard you sing at the game, bruh. So I miss that man.

But um, you know, for every time and time and reason, there's a season, man. So. What was it like when he passed away?

Wow. So it was—this was a um— I don't want to call it a crazy place, but it was a state of shock.

Um, at that time, I had worked— I got hooked up with food services, Marriott Food Services at the time. I know it's changed hands by now because my brother

worked for Marriott way back when, but I was actually selling— I was one of the guys selling drinks that night and um,

I had just gone there to Gersten [Pavilion] to get the next set of drinks to take out, and this little guy named Nick came out, said, "Hey, man, Hank's—Hank's

collapsed. He's on the floor." And I'm like—and it was like you could hear a pin—

I mean, quieter than the studio. I said, "What the. heck's going on?" And I ran to the door and all I could see

was these pumps, these Reebok shoes, just staring me in the face. I'm like, "Man, that guy is dead,

he can't be dead." And they carted him off, man. Um. What was—I probably. more—I don't want to call it an irony, but

a shock to me— was the turnaround time they got him ready for, for a funeral and, you know, and learn things as you get older as a minister.

But I thought even at that moment they had just bought a coffin in just to symbolize that he was gone, and he was in there, man. And um, we got a chance to view—I got a

chance to actually sing at his ceremony. And uh, you know, I'll never forget that. Um, but man, to know how fragile we are and how short life is.

And death is just the next door over, man. That's—that put a lot of things in perspective for many of us here. Uh, you know, whether the university was at fault—this, that, and the another—

life man—and I don't even say the university was at fault, because Hank knew of his situation. Um, and, you know, it is what it is. I would have just loved to—loved to have seen him

play in the NBA, I think like many of us. Um, but, you know, when we get to heaven, we'll have that conversation. But um, it was so—it was a jaw dropping, Bang.

Wow. What do you mean? You know? So yeah.

Yeah, his presence can still be felt here on campus. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. What was it like being a Black student while at LMU? It had its moments.

Uh, some positive, some negative. I want to be too gory or gruesome. Um, I worked for housing uh, for most—many of my summers here.

My uh, supervisor was a guy named Mr. Jeff Carr, and I know he's he's moved on since then, but uh. Population wise— 3% of the population.

Uh, some girls—particularly White females—wanted to know what it would be like to be with a brother. And sometimes brothers want to know the same. Um, but, you know, we made our way through.

I wasn't a promiscuous type guy. Um, dated a few girls that were Hispanic, that were white, that were African American. And that same token, I still had my high

school sweetheart—which I ended up marrying, not out of, you know, just cause— but it was—it was not only the right thing to do, we were in love.

And uh, but, you know, dating um, was—was a good thing here. Um, I remember I had a crush on a girl from one of the sister schools.

She ended up coming here and she ended up meeting up with one of the basketball players and, voila, she ended up having twins. So uh—that's another story for another time.

But uh—but yeah, it was fun. No, I won't— I won't knock it. Yeah, there were some difficult moments in life um, you know,

people would say X, Y, or Z, and, you know, you confront some things, but uh, it wasn't like this was a— you know, a mash bowl

of—or a mashed potato bowl of hate or anything. No, no.

Um, I think everybody was trying to one, gauge what is political correctness, and then how do you just address people for being people? You know, and I think if that if that's anything

I took away from Loyola was just be you—you know your gift, and then the word of God speaks that your gift will make room for you so um. And, you know, I sometimes miss being here.

Um, I always said I'd go back to high school for a day. After teaching high school. It's like, No, thank you.

So. Yeah. What organizations were you a part of at LMU? Okay, so.

Office of Black Student Services and the Black Student Union Uh, KXLU or KLMU as well. KLMU first, and then KXLU, because I got

trained to be an AM-FM disk jockey. Uh, not majorly with a music society, but we were part of the Opera Scenes Workshop and I ended up uh, kind of being thrown in the chorus by my—by my vocal teacher, Dr. Halbert

Blair, and he since passed, but uh, he ended up getting the uh—the interim professorship here uh, for the choral music program after Dr. Paul Salamunovich took off for the LA Master Chorale.

So I got a chance to meet him, too. So that—intramural sports. Um, I was also one of the um, fill-in announcers when um— even for women's and men's basketball when uh, the head guy

couldn't do it, they—I would get a call. So um—so those music societies, those uh, broadcasting societies, and uh—and uh, you know, the ethnic— the ethnic mix. And I love the

Asian student population, but uh [laughs] we're all on that same floor together. A friend of mine told me, Don't even think about it, brother.

These girls aren't interested in you. And he—actually his name is Todd Gray. He ended up actually marrying a girl from—from here and uh, they moved to Hawaii,

man. He since buried his wife and he's about to remarry now, so uh. But yeah.

I'm curious to know a little bit more about your development as an artist. Okay. What was your practice routine like when you were here

and then also in your graduate studies and—and beyond? So Gertrude Rivers Robinson was here—Mrs. Gertrude Rivers Robinson. She was the ethnomusicologist on staff here. And um, she would pull me to the side from time

to time and ask, Hey, how how. are things going with voice class? So I said, Well, I had Dr. Roach— which was Mrs. Cheryl Roach at the time, and she's gone on

to get her PhD. And then I ended up with Dr. Blair because our music department chair really wanted me with a man and um— the thing I took from her—because back then—so

the answer this question directly—an hour a day, one of those practice rooms, you have to etch in the time and sometimes people get mad, "You're not

signed up!" Yeah, well, kick me out, whatever. But um, I was big on taking um—taking a tape recorder in at the time.

And uh, she told me then, she said, "You have to love your instrument." I'm like, "What do you mean by that?" "You need to record yourself, boy, and listen to that

and—and know how to refine that." And uh, for those three and a half, four years, I have to chat with her. I would do that.

So somehow or another, the music department was getting rid of equipment. I got a realistic deck that I could just take with me.

It's like a small cube of sort and I take my headphones and man, and I would record those sessions. I would take the—the tape from the one hour vocal lesson, and I made sure my repertoire was there.

And man, I just drilled and drilled and uh, probably not the most disciplined when it comes to it now, because I do it so often with kids now. But when I'm asked to sing professionally, oh, it's there

because the—that all that exercise that was a workout. And as much as I don't get an hour in of, you know, individual voice now

because I teach it, but when a gig is coming up—oh yeah, I'm spending time with it. So one hour, that one hour of discipline, I even tell my voice

students at Antelope Valley College, you gotta at least get 45 minutes to an hour in every day, um,because it's building a muscle and it'll take it— now, I'm not the—

I guess the avant garde opera guy, but I know what—what cover to put on my voice when it comes to opera. What to take off for gospel music.

You know, what to do for Pop and what to do just as a Soul singer. So yeah. And what was it like growing up um, as a musician?

So my dad, John Crocker Sr. was the original bass singer and a group called The Harmonizing Four out of Meridian, Mississippi. I never met his dad, David.

He was also a solo singer. But The Harmonizing Four would open for The Five Blind Boys of Alabama. Uh, James Cleveland, um, who was a resident here of Los Angeles.

He had the Gospel Music Workshop of America, um, Mother Clara Ward and the Ward Singers, and these— I mean, these are some strictly shown off Gospel

singing folks. So music was always in my home. My mom was a uh—was an alto singer. Her dad trained her, Mr. Hezekiah Jackson.

So it kind of dropped. And I was in a youth group with the—oh, what do they call it, the—the Masonic Order. And um, we um—I sang my first song—I think I

was six—at a little church off of Florence and Gramercy Place called Grace Temple.

It was uh, Andraé Crouch's "Through It All," but gospel music and music in general was everywhere in my life, whether it was uh, in church or whether it was with people like um, my

neighbors. Um, one was a play cousin of mine. Um, back then, you could get the Columbia House music. You get ten tapes for a dime, you know, as

long as you signed up. Well, I was told to return some Earth, Wind and Fire stuff back, and uh, I kept it.

And that's where I kind of fell further in love with uh, falsetto singing and— And Earth,

Wind, and Fire in general, man. Finding out uh, "Fantasy" from that whole "All 'n All" album. It's my favorite song of of them all because, you know,

at the end it says, "With the wind as you fly away, give a smile from your lips and say I'm free, and I'm on my way." And—and I think that that says something about

who we are as people. Find that thing, that fantasy in life and live it. You don't have to be promiscuous, but live that

dream that's in your heart. So— Wow, That's powerful.

Yeah. Was your family um, very encouraging of your path, you know, towards music or when you made that—that sort of decision in college?

Yeah. My mom wanted me to take over— so you got to understand, I come from a line of preachers, so my uh, dad's—my mom's father was the

chairman of the deacon board of a church town and a big Baptist church town and killed our taxes. So she was one of ten kids.

I have five. Um, I'm one of six— three boys, three girls.

My brother who's passed away, Dr. Ricardo Crocker, ended up pastoring—um, beginning pastoring at the age of 18, left all. Biola University.

And ended up, you know, finishing up at theology school. But I was his minister of music at the age

of 14 or so. Um, finding out how to really work with people and what those scenes are like, but greater with— any time he got up to speak—because he was

not a singer. There's some things in life people found out and my brother was not a singer.

But he would say, "I'm going to have my youngest brother come up and grace you with a solo before I bring the word of God." Um, my dad took his—accepted his call in the ministry

later in life. He stepped away from gospel music for a number of reasons, one of which uh, his lead singer had been very unfaithful uh, to him by cheating on his wife.

So um, he stepped away from that. And this was my dad's first relationship. When he met my mom—um, they actually met up the road here off the Vermont

strip. He was a detective for Pinkerton at the time, but uh Their favorite song at the time was Aretha Franklin's, "What you want, baby,

I got it." [song title: Respect] So, um So to—to that extent— so, yeah, it's

always been around. It's always been around if I'm answering you correctly.